My latest series of interviews on podcasts and the texts which I set out on these pages to introduce the video links have stirred up a great deal of comment on my web platforms and of email letters sent directly to me.
Thanks for some needed insights, including the one about online forums potentially being dragged down, defined or destroyed by the commenters they attract. I see this happening on a number of sites that have important and valid content but attract some nasty commenters. (The Duran is an example.) As a commenter, I try to call out or rebuke some of the nastier comments, including the anti-semetic ones, as sort of corrective. It's important that the great majority of non-nasty followers of the site remember that they are not a minority there.
My explanation of the commenters is that they (sometimes effectively) serve through hijacking the source analysis and drive it into a discussion of red herrings.
The salient portion begins at 31m in. Here's a synopsis..
Dmitri Laskaris is an accomplished interviewer and Matthew Hoh a knowledgeable ex military guest. In a recent video, Laskaris set up the ongoing debate between Mersheimer and Doctorow as follows..
Doctorow believes the US controls the Israeli’s and that the US admin is fighting a proxy war in the ME to regain imperial hegemony and status after humiliating defeats in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Ukraine as well as to avenge itself against adversaries. This analysis is seconded by Finkelstein and Chomsky, among others. Mersheimer believes roughly the opposite, that Israel controls the US President and Congress through corruption and legalized bribery. MacGregor on the other hand believes the US is rudderless, reacting chaotically to events. That’s a hard and useful framing of an important debate among the Alt Media pundits I follow. And I’m glad Doctorow mixes it up with the other “Senior Contrarians” to coin a term for the Alt Media pundits I’ve followed since the Ukr/Rus war began 2.5 years ago.
Having posed the two sides of the debate, Laskaris said he was on the Doctorow/Finkelstein/Chomsky side. Then Matthew Hoh in a long discursive reply said all 3 sides are correct and that there was a “chicken v egg” issue. Hoh noted the historical change in US policy in the 1990s when neocons took over foreign policy with Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the Jews, Perl, Wolfowitz, etc. He said they had different motives: Cheney wanted war because it was good for Halliburton, Rumsfeld wanted war to assert US Imperial dominance, and the Jewish neocons wanted war for Israel.
Hoh went on to say it was never true that money was always the key, or that ideology always the key, or that any single factor was ever the sole reason for any policy or decision. Hoh offered an analogy of a family going to a restaurant. The husband likes the pasta, the wife the desserts, the kids the prizes, the teenage son the waitresses ass.
Also, as Hoh correctly noted, the errand boys of empire like current “US ME negotiators” Hockstein (an IDF soldier and dual citizen) and McGurk get their jobs only by approval of the Israel lobby, and by their MIC bonifides and elite resumes. Equally important, the US system is corrupt to the core with many interests paying for access and power. The pharm industry controls medicine, Big Ag controls farm policy, the MIC controls the defense budget, Wall Street controls finance and the economy.. and Israel controls our US Mideast policy. So.. it’s not one or the other of the three arguments above, its all of them combined in a gigantic, deadly maelstrom.
I was at first on your side of this argument.. then Hoh convinced me it was more complicated. But much respect for starting the debate, and for pushing back on what has become dangerously close to group think among the Alt Media dons.
"Before closing this discussion, I am obliged to delve into the elephant in the room kind of issue that presents itself with particular relevance in the Alternative Media community: anti-Semitism."
"Anti-Semitism" is a trope weaponized by Zionists to shut down debate and cover up the many atrocities of Israel. However, yes, there is real anti-Semitism and it has metastasized in the last year. This is to be expected and is completely normative. Israel has subjected us to a steady stream of genocide pornography, coupled with psychotic glee, industrial scale lying, and absolute impunity. Would anyone expect anti-Semitism not to increase under these circumstances?
You're a public figure Mr. Doctorow, with an income and reputation to protect and can't afford to go any deeper than an inch down into this darkness. I can however. Most of the virulent anti-Semitism on X Twitter in the last year has been fairly thoughtful and grounded in facts. The facts of "Holocaust denial" are unknown to most, but available on unz.com. The facts of Israel's foundation in Jewish terrorism (the Stern Gang and Irgun, forerunners of the IDF) are ignored but available on Wikipedia. The facts of the USS Liberty attack by the IDF are largely unknown, but also on Wiki. The possible role of Israel in the assassination of JFK, RFK and the 9/11 attack are dismissed as conspiracy theory though there is a strong circumstantial case. This is only a short gloss of the sins Israel and the Jews need to answer for. And the clapping seals of the US Congress during Netanyahu's recent visit were shameful, as are both presidential candidates and almost all EU leaders.
If the US goes to war for Israel it will hasten our decline and lead to the destruction of the West's final empire and of its rabid ME attack dog, Israel. That would be a blessing for the rest of the world, including Russia, which is well situated to arise like a phoenix from the ashes.
Speaking of the clapping for pee pee nuttin poo poo (Tres Trumpy, non?), that could support both Gilbert's dog wagging tail OR the conventional tail wagging dog.
Clapping like that is praise and obiesence to the master
OR
It is cheering your warrior visiting home from the battleground where he has dutifully slaughtered well - good boy
Let’s assume, the US does not want a war against Iran. They could have waged this war 20 - 30 years ago, e. g. immediately after the Iraq-war(s) with a much stronger US army and a much weaker Iranian force. So why should they encourage „their proxy“ at this very inconvenient moment to provoke this war? The US military resources are not sufficient for a war in Ukraine, an effort to contain the power of China and a war against Iran at the same time. To retaliate for the humiliation of the Islamic revolution and the hostage crisis 45 years later is a bit too late in my opinion. Mearsheimers explanations sound much more logic: Israel tries to become undisputed local hegemon for security and other reasons. And the US - if they like it or not - have to fight their war. Of course, there are US interests in this development. Look at the profits of the defense industry. And do not forget those christian zionists, who have a religious interest. But they are part of the lobby and represent the interests of Israel.
A discussion between you and Mearsheimer would be very interesting.
Very interesting article. Tend to agree mostly, and yes it requires a lot of detailed investigation as opposed to some blanket statements by some of those mentioned.
I am watching the October 4 INTEL video on Judging Freedom and at 17:44 Judge Nap says to Larry, "and he's (Gilbert) is of the view that Biden controls pee pee poo poo rather than p poo controlling Biden."
That IS laughable and I think it was unfair the way Nap presented Gilbert's reasonable thesis.
Larry then went on to decide Biden's airhead administration .
Wow! Hard to keep up with this. Carlos response quite detailed an filled me in a little. MavGregor says rudderless. How says complicated - motives vary. Larry Johnson agrees with McGregor. I listen to that to see how he could be so rude to Gilbert. I like them both a lot. We'll, again, it could interpreted in both ways. Yes, he immediately laughed off the theory, BUT he continued, and he was not mocking Doctorow, but rather the US administration as vacant heads incapable of holding a thought, kinda like McGregors opinion.
I'm glad Gilbert brought it up because it's been puzzling me how we could go from a country of 18th Century Enlightenment Men to being puppets for shylock money changers...and committing horrific genocide for them!
BTW, in 1988 the Republicans called me up and invited me to meet Governor Deukmejian of CA. It was a room like a big classroom and when he came, everyone clapped and clapped and clapped and clapped and clapped...yeah, it went on for quite a while...LOUD. I clapped.
It was like being at a church meeting, sitting in a circle and each said "I accept Jesus as my Lord And Savior..." or an A.A. meeting, same, "I am John Smith and I'm an alcoholic." You say it, you clap, or you leave.
I just want Gil and Larry and the Resistors to get along. I was the youngest in a turbulent family, always hoping for calm. I'm like the Dragon in Belinda's Little Yellow House - I'm the one who are the big bad pirate, but then I go back to crying for a nice safe home.
BTW, will someone please tell Wilkerson that the dude's name is pee pee. That's pee pee nuttin' poo poo. bibi is the affectionate, childhood nickname- are you EFFING serious!? I guess he didn't get the memo.
It seems to me to be a bit of both, dogs and tails wagging each other, depending on somewhat complex strategies and tactics. There is indeed a very powerful Israeli (although I would more characterize this group as pro-zionist)lobby, and their massive money trough is readily slurped up by hungry politicians, but also the US has an interest in maintaining confusion and chaos, really worldwide at this point in time; so I feel this argument should be parsed a bit. I agree with you Dr. Doctorow that the point needs to be stressed that the US is at times the wagger.
Thanks for some needed insights, including the one about online forums potentially being dragged down, defined or destroyed by the commenters they attract. I see this happening on a number of sites that have important and valid content but attract some nasty commenters. (The Duran is an example.) As a commenter, I try to call out or rebuke some of the nastier comments, including the anti-semetic ones, as sort of corrective. It's important that the great majority of non-nasty followers of the site remember that they are not a minority there.
My explanation of the commenters is that they (sometimes effectively) serve through hijacking the source analysis and drive it into a discussion of red herrings.
I think some commenter's are National security poking and probing and provoking to test and expose readers
Mr Doctorow, I'd like to bring your attention to an excellent follow-on video by Dmitri Lascaris with guest Matthew Hoh..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61lEPnxwG_0&t=1899s&ab_channel=DimitriLascaris
The salient portion begins at 31m in. Here's a synopsis..
Dmitri Laskaris is an accomplished interviewer and Matthew Hoh a knowledgeable ex military guest. In a recent video, Laskaris set up the ongoing debate between Mersheimer and Doctorow as follows..
Doctorow believes the US controls the Israeli’s and that the US admin is fighting a proxy war in the ME to regain imperial hegemony and status after humiliating defeats in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Ukraine as well as to avenge itself against adversaries. This analysis is seconded by Finkelstein and Chomsky, among others. Mersheimer believes roughly the opposite, that Israel controls the US President and Congress through corruption and legalized bribery. MacGregor on the other hand believes the US is rudderless, reacting chaotically to events. That’s a hard and useful framing of an important debate among the Alt Media pundits I follow. And I’m glad Doctorow mixes it up with the other “Senior Contrarians” to coin a term for the Alt Media pundits I’ve followed since the Ukr/Rus war began 2.5 years ago.
Having posed the two sides of the debate, Laskaris said he was on the Doctorow/Finkelstein/Chomsky side. Then Matthew Hoh in a long discursive reply said all 3 sides are correct and that there was a “chicken v egg” issue. Hoh noted the historical change in US policy in the 1990s when neocons took over foreign policy with Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the Jews, Perl, Wolfowitz, etc. He said they had different motives: Cheney wanted war because it was good for Halliburton, Rumsfeld wanted war to assert US Imperial dominance, and the Jewish neocons wanted war for Israel.
Hoh went on to say it was never true that money was always the key, or that ideology always the key, or that any single factor was ever the sole reason for any policy or decision. Hoh offered an analogy of a family going to a restaurant. The husband likes the pasta, the wife the desserts, the kids the prizes, the teenage son the waitresses ass.
Also, as Hoh correctly noted, the errand boys of empire like current “US ME negotiators” Hockstein (an IDF soldier and dual citizen) and McGurk get their jobs only by approval of the Israel lobby, and by their MIC bonifides and elite resumes. Equally important, the US system is corrupt to the core with many interests paying for access and power. The pharm industry controls medicine, Big Ag controls farm policy, the MIC controls the defense budget, Wall Street controls finance and the economy.. and Israel controls our US Mideast policy. So.. it’s not one or the other of the three arguments above, its all of them combined in a gigantic, deadly maelstrom.
I was at first on your side of this argument.. then Hoh convinced me it was more complicated. But much respect for starting the debate, and for pushing back on what has become dangerously close to group think among the Alt Media dons.
"Before closing this discussion, I am obliged to delve into the elephant in the room kind of issue that presents itself with particular relevance in the Alternative Media community: anti-Semitism."
"Anti-Semitism" is a trope weaponized by Zionists to shut down debate and cover up the many atrocities of Israel. However, yes, there is real anti-Semitism and it has metastasized in the last year. This is to be expected and is completely normative. Israel has subjected us to a steady stream of genocide pornography, coupled with psychotic glee, industrial scale lying, and absolute impunity. Would anyone expect anti-Semitism not to increase under these circumstances?
You're a public figure Mr. Doctorow, with an income and reputation to protect and can't afford to go any deeper than an inch down into this darkness. I can however. Most of the virulent anti-Semitism on X Twitter in the last year has been fairly thoughtful and grounded in facts. The facts of "Holocaust denial" are unknown to most, but available on unz.com. The facts of Israel's foundation in Jewish terrorism (the Stern Gang and Irgun, forerunners of the IDF) are ignored but available on Wikipedia. The facts of the USS Liberty attack by the IDF are largely unknown, but also on Wiki. The possible role of Israel in the assassination of JFK, RFK and the 9/11 attack are dismissed as conspiracy theory though there is a strong circumstantial case. This is only a short gloss of the sins Israel and the Jews need to answer for. And the clapping seals of the US Congress during Netanyahu's recent visit were shameful, as are both presidential candidates and almost all EU leaders.
If the US goes to war for Israel it will hasten our decline and lead to the destruction of the West's final empire and of its rabid ME attack dog, Israel. That would be a blessing for the rest of the world, including Russia, which is well situated to arise like a phoenix from the ashes.
Speaking of the clapping for pee pee nuttin poo poo (Tres Trumpy, non?), that could support both Gilbert's dog wagging tail OR the conventional tail wagging dog.
Clapping like that is praise and obiesence to the master
OR
It is cheering your warrior visiting home from the battleground where he has dutifully slaughtered well - good boy
Let’s assume, the US does not want a war against Iran. They could have waged this war 20 - 30 years ago, e. g. immediately after the Iraq-war(s) with a much stronger US army and a much weaker Iranian force. So why should they encourage „their proxy“ at this very inconvenient moment to provoke this war? The US military resources are not sufficient for a war in Ukraine, an effort to contain the power of China and a war against Iran at the same time. To retaliate for the humiliation of the Islamic revolution and the hostage crisis 45 years later is a bit too late in my opinion. Mearsheimers explanations sound much more logic: Israel tries to become undisputed local hegemon for security and other reasons. And the US - if they like it or not - have to fight their war. Of course, there are US interests in this development. Look at the profits of the defense industry. And do not forget those christian zionists, who have a religious interest. But they are part of the lobby and represent the interests of Israel.
A discussion between you and Mearsheimer would be very interesting.
Very interesting article. Tend to agree mostly, and yes it requires a lot of detailed investigation as opposed to some blanket statements by some of those mentioned.
Deride Biden's airhead administration
I am watching the October 4 INTEL video on Judging Freedom and at 17:44 Judge Nap says to Larry, "and he's (Gilbert) is of the view that Biden controls pee pee poo poo rather than p poo controlling Biden."
That IS laughable and I think it was unfair the way Nap presented Gilbert's reasonable thesis.
Larry then went on to decide Biden's airhead administration .
Wow! Hard to keep up with this. Carlos response quite detailed an filled me in a little. MavGregor says rudderless. How says complicated - motives vary. Larry Johnson agrees with McGregor. I listen to that to see how he could be so rude to Gilbert. I like them both a lot. We'll, again, it could interpreted in both ways. Yes, he immediately laughed off the theory, BUT he continued, and he was not mocking Doctorow, but rather the US administration as vacant heads incapable of holding a thought, kinda like McGregors opinion.
I'm glad Gilbert brought it up because it's been puzzling me how we could go from a country of 18th Century Enlightenment Men to being puppets for shylock money changers...and committing horrific genocide for them!
BTW, in 1988 the Republicans called me up and invited me to meet Governor Deukmejian of CA. It was a room like a big classroom and when he came, everyone clapped and clapped and clapped and clapped and clapped...yeah, it went on for quite a while...LOUD. I clapped.
It was like being at a church meeting, sitting in a circle and each said "I accept Jesus as my Lord And Savior..." or an A.A. meeting, same, "I am John Smith and I'm an alcoholic." You say it, you clap, or you leave.
I just want Gil and Larry and the Resistors to get along. I was the youngest in a turbulent family, always hoping for calm. I'm like the Dragon in Belinda's Little Yellow House - I'm the one who are the big bad pirate, but then I go back to crying for a nice safe home.
BTW, will someone please tell Wilkerson that the dude's name is pee pee. That's pee pee nuttin' poo poo. bibi is the affectionate, childhood nickname- are you EFFING serious!? I guess he didn't get the memo.
Correction. ATE the big bad pirate.
It seems to me to be a bit of both, dogs and tails wagging each other, depending on somewhat complex strategies and tactics. There is indeed a very powerful Israeli (although I would more characterize this group as pro-zionist)lobby, and their massive money trough is readily slurped up by hungry politicians, but also the US has an interest in maintaining confusion and chaos, really worldwide at this point in time; so I feel this argument should be parsed a bit. I agree with you Dr. Doctorow that the point needs to be stressed that the US is at times the wagger.