More from Indian broadcaster WION on the crash of the Russian jet carrying Ukrainian POWs
In a far-reaching interview yesterday with India’s premier English-language global television service WION, I was given the opportunity to comment on the plane crash Wednesday near the RF border with Ukraine in which 65 Ukrainian POWs died.
We speak regularly about the neo-Nazi gang that has a stranglehold on Zelensky’s government and army. However, the periodic murder of its own POWs that has been Kiev’s policy since the start of the conflict points to a cynical and vicious tradition that came down to modern day Ukraine from its Soviet past.
See
Transcript of the interview (Andreas Mylaeus)
Russian military plane crash: Ukrainian President calls for an international probe | Live discussion
WION
Ananya Dutta:
On Wednesday a Russian military transport plane crashed in the Belgorod region. At the time the plane was carrying 65 Ukrainian war prisoners, six Russian crew members and three Russian soldiers for escort. All of them have died in the incident. The Ukrainian President has called for an international investigation into the plane crash. Moscow immediately blamed Ukraine for the incident and called it an act of terror.
Now to discuss this latest escalation we are being joined by Dr Gilbert Doctorow. He's joining us live from Brussels. He's an international affairs analyst, author and historian.
Dr. Doctorow, thank you so much for joining us here on WION.
Gilbert Doctorow:
It's my pleasure.
Ananya Dutta:
All right, how are you seeing this latest plane crash that killed Ukrainian prisoners of war?
Gilbert Doctorow:
I think this plane crash is extremely important because of what it says about the government in in Kiev, who is running it, and for what purpose. This devastating event has parallels with the MH-17. It has parallels with the bombing of a Russian detention center which kept Ukrainian prisoners of war and where again dozens if not a 100 or more of the prisoners of war were killed as a result of the Kiev government action. So it is an event of considerable importance and exactly what were the weapons used to bring down the Ilyushin plane is now the focus of attention of journalists worldwide for good reason.
If it was – as Agence France press reports today – if it was a Patriot missile or a couple of missiles that brought the plane down, that immediately tells you that this decision was taken at the highest levels of the Ukrainian government, that the weapons were moved from Kiev where they were guarding the city to Kharkiv, from where they were fired, and that puts directly the responsibility of Mr. Zelensky and of General Zaluzhnyi for the decision to shoot this down.
Ananya Dutta:
Right. Just taking that point further: If for once we take Russia's claim into consideration that Ukraine downed the plane, what do you think Kiev will actually gain from a move like this?
Gilbert Doctorow:
I think Kiev can only lose. The original intent was to pursue what they have done otherwise on the field of battle. The Ukrainian forces have shot in the back their own soldiers whom they thought might be going over to the enemy. What we have here… We forget that Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union for 70 years and the morals of Mr. Stalin were applied in Ukraine and seemed to have remained there despite the fall of the Soviet Union. By that I mean in World War II it was the practice of the Soviet Army to consider prisoners of war as deserters. They may have been injured, they may have been carried off the field to hospitals, but once they were interned in Germany or in Germany's allies, they were considered as traitors. When they came home they faced severe conditions, if not execution. This is the very type of approach to human rights that Kiev is applying to its own citizens: A very Stalinist method and that is at sharp variance with the bunny rabbit quality of Kiev that Western news media have projected from the start of the conflict.
Ananya Dutta:
Dr. Doctorow, I must say, you're making a very, very critical parallel here.
Now let's take this conversation further: A statement by the Ukrainian military says that Moscow did not ask for specific airspace to be kept safe for the prisoner exchange. It actually further alleges that this is something that has happened in the past exchanges as well. Do you think miscommunication could have led to something like this?
Gilbert Doctorow:
No. I come back to my first point. Once it is clear exactly, which weapons were applied, was it a Patriot, was it an S300, we will have an answer to the question you just posed. The supposition is in any case that very powerful ground to air missiles were used and that such weapons are approved only of the highest levels of the Ukrainian military. Therefore it is improbable this was a communications accident.
Besides, in the fact – as you have correctly stated – that Ukraine accepts the notion that it is fair game to shoot down transport carriers approaching the vicinity of Ukrainian borders they are as much as admitting that they shot it down.
Ananya Dutta:
All right. Now, the West has been backing Ukraine on all fronts. In fact Joe Biden's „as long as needed“-promise is something we keep coming back to. But with geopolitical tensions in West Asia, the Korean Peninsula, and of course Taiwan now, and of course the upcoming presidential elections where Biden honestly isn't leading, do you think Washington will be able to hold on to its end of the bargain?
Gilbert Doctorow:
No. It won't be. Which doesn't mean that there will not be some American aid forthcoming. In the interim the United States is applying every possible pressure to Europe to see that the gap is filled by European military and financial assistance to Kiev. So as long as it takes for Mr. Biden to bring Congress to heel and to get appropriations out of Washington's legislature that he hopes and expects to get. There will ultimately be some kind of aid for Ukraine coming out of the United States. The problem is right now that the Ukrainians have run out of ammunition and there is this space between now and when money and arms come in first from Europe and then from the States, which leaves them very nervous and with good reason.
Ananya Dutta:
In about a month the war will enter its third year. Where do you think it is heading, sir?
Gilbert Doctorow:
It is very difficult to say. There are cheerleaders for Russia in the West who would lead us to think that the war will end in two or three weeks when the Ukrainian Army collapses or when there is a revolt of the Armed Forces to overthrow the government in Kiev, to overthrow Mr. Zelensky. That is possible. I don't dismiss that. But I wouldn't call it probable. The collapse of the Ukrainian army has been overemphasized by – as I say – cheerleaders in the West. The Russians themselves – if you pay attention to what they're saying on state television in very responsible talk shows and political analysis shows – the Russians themselves are admitting that in a defensive posture the Ukrainians with continuing assistance of military supplies from the West could maintain this war for a couple more years. So it is impossible for anyone to see at this point with confidence what date the war will end. But it is more likely that it will end because of political decisions taken than because of what happens on the field of battle – political decisions in Washington, in Brussels, and in Kiev itself.
Ananya Dutta:
All right, Dr. Doctorow. Thank you so much for joining us here on WION and also getting us all those insights.
Gilbert Doctorow:
Thanks for the invitation.